Forum Message

Topic: Re:Re:Another one bites the dust
Posted by: Tracie Dudley Craig
Date/Time: 20/08/19 11:27:00

Sincere thanks to all who have responded.

Other than a slightly peculiar segue into greasy chicken and greasier palms (which should really have been taken elsewhere), this discourse has unearthed some interesting opinions and insights.

The original premise of my post involved the proposed redevelopment of the OíRiordanís site, however that premise has, unavoidably, broadened into the issue of Brentfordís redevelopment at large.

First, the key take-away: structures belong to the owner of the land upon which they are built. The owner of the land upon which OíRiordanís is built can, within the strictures of planning, demolish and rebuild anything they wish. By that token, itís pretty safe to assume that OíRiordanís is a goner. Whoíd a thunk it? (Mike Patersonís observation that, kept as a pub, OíRiordanís would have ideally located to take advantage of the new stadium is a good one. It hadnít even occurred to me but, then again, Iím not a football enthusiast.)

That leads - neatly, I feel - into the question of planning permission itself; why are these permissions being granted? Iím not talking about small domestic extensions which donít make much impact upon their front elevations (additionally, show me an historic house where alterations and additions havenít been made), rather these grand, sweeping changes which denature an area and rob it of its essential character. Itís often hard for householders to gain permission for small extensions. Why is it so much easy for a process to run roughshod over history, the feelings of residents and those who have to live with the consequences? Itís retina-burning streetlighting and wheelie bins spoiling the appearance of terraced houses all over again.

Of course itís more expensive to restore rather than replace, but our communities are very much the poorer for it. In truth, I donít see a family moving into a Brentford new-build and remaining in the area for 150 years, as is the family history for some current residents. The criticism that these developments create a Ďdormitoryí environment is a sound one and the lack of infrastructure in the form of shops and facilities would support this. (Iíll be interested to learn which retail outlets populate the available spaces when the time comes.) There seems to be little in the way of permanence in these blocks of flats and really does little to create community, however much communal tai chi is thrown into the mix.

My dismay at the proposed loss of the High Streetís Barclayís and Post Office faÁades is clearly another case of one personís definition of Ďmerití victorious over anotherís. The Guardianís ĎDerelict Londoní piece also featured the Cinematograph building on Shepherdís Bush Green. Demolition has commenced, however, the faÁade has been preserved and will be integrated into a new structure, although the decorative terracotta side panels have, sadly, gone. The developers are, apparently, committed to replacing these with exact facsimiles. For many, itís not an ideal outcome, but it shows willing.

It adds up to the notion that conservation and/or listing is entirely toothless as, on a case-by-case basis it can be overturned by approval from a planning committee. Thereís a great deal written about contextual design and development but this is, I believe, weasel. How, precisely, does the south-side development contextualise itself? The Goddardís building? By that token, it could be argued that the context for OíRiordanís redevelopment would be its architecturally undistinguished neighbours. Thatís lowest common denominator-think of the dreariest sort.

In other matters: -

NV Brooks Ė I am familiar with Gavin Stamp (thereís a lovely piece about him on the Bible of British Taste website) and the Nooks and Corners column. I think you make a very valid point regarding the lack of comment from VicSoc. Does anyone local engage with them? Would it make a difference? (Although if World Heritage/Historic England intervention canít make a dent, what hope anyone else?) I may make inquiries.

Adam Beamish Ė Iím never disappointed by the way that you manage to make every thread in which you participate all about you, your good works and your propriety. Itís the gift that keeps on giving. Good man!

Incentivising is not a sin. I just wish that incentives were given to people who might, conceivably, add something to the area. As it is, independents go arse-up, while the Colonelís eleven secret herbs and spices live to fight another day. As I mentioned some time ago, the Grosvenor Estateís incentive scheme has created some fantastic places to shop, run by people who would never have believed they had the funds to open in Belgravia. Lots to think about there.

Councillor Lambert Ė Iím afraid that I must agree with some of the other posters; I watched with horror as the Sarah Trimmer building was dismantled. It may have been Ďrobustlyí rebuilt, however Ė visually - it is not what it was, merely an ersatz facsimile of the original. Unlike OíRiordanís (or the redeveloped church nearby) it was a building of enormous cultural significance - why was it ever allowed to fall into such disrepair?

Itís also a fair assessment to suggest that its Ďrobustí restoration was only carried out in the hope of gain from development and itís absolutely right that planning applications for multi-occupancy conversion were turned down. It deserved (and still deserves) better.

Your observation regarding the Brewery Tap versus Rye on the Water is disingenuous. The Tapís future has been in question for years and that uncertainty doesnít encourage maintenance or a spot of gentrification. ROTW is a nice addition to the area (and the source of a decent loaf Ė if youíre there in time), but until thereís a substantial increase in weekday footfall it is almost certainly running at the sort of loss that would put anyone out of business in short order. This, of course, presents another questionÖ

The issue, as ever, is communication that is far from transparent. The car park debacle is an excellent case in point. When residents are fed conflicting information regarding planning permission and permanence, can you really blame them for grasping at facts which may be gleaned from less than impeccable sources? It's not a rumour mill, it's a lack of clear facts. Legitimate questions are met with evasion, defensiveness, impatience and exasperation. I know that you are exceptionally diligent in responding to threads such as this, but some of your colleagues let the side down quite horribly. You have to accept this.†

I know itís a cracked record, but this whole situation is a shambles. Poor old Brentford Ė what did you do to deserve this?


Entire Thread
TopicDate PostedPosted By
Another one bites the dust17/08/19 16:58:00 Tracie Dudley Craig
   Re:Another one bites the dust17/08/19 22:26:00 N V Brooks
      Re:Re:Another one bites the dust17/08/19 22:48:00 Tracie Dudley Craig
         Re:Re:Re:Another one bites the dust18/08/19 06:41:00 Nichols Beard
            Re:Re:Re:Re:Another one bites the dust18/08/19 09:42:00 N V Brooks
               Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Another one bites the dust18/08/19 11:31:00 Tracie Dudley Craig
                  Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Another one bites the dust18/08/19 11:58:00 N V Brooks
                     Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Another one bites the dust18/08/19 14:22:00 Tracie Dudley Craig
                        Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Another one bites the dust18/08/19 14:33:00 Raymond Havelock
                           Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Another one bites the dust18/08/19 14:55:00 Tracie Dudley Craig
                              Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Another one bites the dust19/08/19 11:47:00 Vanessa Smith
                        Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Another one bites the dust18/08/19 15:06:00 N V Brooks
                           Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Another one bites the dust18/08/19 17:15:00 Jennifer Selig
                     Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Another one bites the dust18/08/19 17:34:00 Guy Lambert
                        Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Another one bites the dust18/08/19 21:18:00 Raymond Havelock
                           Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Another one bites the dust18/08/19 23:38:00 Guy Lambert
                              Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Another one bites the dust19/08/19 10:25:00 Adam Beamish
                           Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Another one bites the dust19/08/19 06:23:00 Nichols Beard
                              Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Another one bites the dust19/08/19 08:07:00 N V Brooks
                                 Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Another one bites the dust19/08/19 12:03:00 Raymond Havelock
                                    Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Another one bites the dust19/08/19 12:12:00 Anne England
                                       Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Another one bites the dust19/08/19 12:46:00 Adam Beamish
                                          Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Another one bites the dust19/08/19 13:09:00 Raymond Havelock
                                             Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Another one bites the dust19/08/19 17:33:00 Guy Lambert
                                             Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Another one bites the dust19/08/19 21:52:00 Adam Beamish
                           Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Another one bites the dust19/08/19 15:37:00 Mike Paterson
                        Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Another one bites the dust19/08/19 16:04:00 Mike Paterson
                           Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Another one bites the dust19/08/19 18:48:00 Vanessa Smith
                     Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Another one bites the dust19/08/19 19:52:00 Neil Chippendale
   Re:Another one bites the dust19/08/19 16:13:00 Mike Paterson
      Re:Re:Another one bites the dust20/08/19 11:27:00 Tracie Dudley Craig
         Re:Re:Re:Another one bites the dust20/08/19 12:20:00 Vanessa Smith
         Re:Re:Re:Another one bites the dust20/08/19 16:18:00 N V Brooks
            Re:Re:Re:Re:Another one bites the dust20/08/19 16:34:00 Vanessa Smith
               Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Another one bites the dust20/08/19 17:31:00 N V Brooks
         Re:Re:Re:Another one bites the dust21/08/19 00:06:00 Guy Lambert
         Re:Re:Re:Another one bites the dust21/08/19 10:02:00 Adam Beamish
            Re:Re:Re:Re:Another one bites the dust21/08/19 12:58:00 N V Brooks
               Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Another one bites the dust21/08/19 13:34:00 Vanessa Smith
                  Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Another one bites the dust21/08/19 14:34:00 N V Brooks
                     Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Another one bites the dust24/08/19 12:41:00 N V Brooks
                        Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Another one bites the dust25/08/19 15:42:00 Tracie Dudley Craig
                           Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Another one bites the dust25/08/19 16:15:00 Jean Harrison
                              Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Another one bites the dust26/08/19 13:11:00 Vanessa Smith
                           Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Another one bites the dust26/08/19 23:04:00 Guy Lambert
                              Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Another one bites the dust27/08/19 07:44:00 Emma Renton
                              Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Another one bites the dust07/09/19 13:09:00 Mike Paterson
                           Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Another one bites the dust27/08/19 10:18:00 Anne England
                              Re: Should we laugh or cry?27/08/19 16:49:00 Vanessa Smith
                                 Re:Re: Should we laugh or cry?28/08/19 11:12:00 Jennifer Selig
                                    Re:Re:Re: Should we laugh or cry?29/08/19 08:21:00 Emma Renton
                                       Re:Re:Re:Re: Should we laugh or cry?29/08/19 09:49:00 Paul Fisher
                                          Re:Re:Re:Re:Re: Should we laugh or cry?29/08/19 14:08:00 Jennifer Selig
                                             Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re: Should we laugh or cry?29/08/19 14:27:00 Vanessa Smith
                                                Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re: Should we laugh or cry?07/09/19 15:52:00 Jennifer Selig
                                                   Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re: Should we laugh or cry?07/09/19 15:55:00 Jennifer Selig
                                                      Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re: Should we laugh or cry?07/09/19 16:49:00 Vanessa Smith

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